Ever Applied for PMF or Federal Internship? NASPAA Needs your input.
EVER APPLIED FOR A PMF OR FEDERAL STUDENT INTERNSHIP?
If so, we would love to hear about suggestions you have to improve things (post a comment below).
The National Association of Schools of Public Affairs is working with key officials at OPM and other Federal agencies to rethink and revamp the Presidential Management Fellowship, Federal Career Internship Program and other Federal internships too.
We are seeking your input and thoughts and it could be as simple as a one sentence description to something longer. Just comment below.
Your suggestion can focus on any aspect of these internships and will remain confidential when passed forward. We are moving on a fast-track pace so recommendations welcome up thru July 4th.
Thanks for your input! Scott Talan and the NASPAA team
If so, we would love to hear about suggestions you have to improve things (post a comment below).
The National Association of Schools of Public Affairs is working with key officials at OPM and other Federal agencies to rethink and revamp the Presidential Management Fellowship, Federal Career Internship Program and other Federal internships too.
We are seeking your input and thoughts and it could be as simple as a one sentence description to something longer. Just comment below.
Your suggestion can focus on any aspect of these internships and will remain confidential when passed forward. We are moving on a fast-track pace so recommendations welcome up thru July 4th.
Thanks for your input! Scott Talan and the NASPAA team
Tags: Internship, NASPAA, PMF, hire, human, human resources, new, new hire, new hire handbook
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by GovLoop on -
I posted this for Scott but thought I'd add my own thoughts since I've applied for and received government internships.
1 - Lots of wasted talent. I think I heard 1/3 of people that get the PMF don't ever find placement at an agency. That's a travesty and should be fixed. There needs to be a better way of linking internship and scholarships to actual jobs. The federal fellowship I received in graduate school has had a bad record of placing people in government. Not because of people not wanting to but they just didn't have the mechanism (the tip was go to usajobs.gov)
2-Most of the programs are for graduate schools. There should also be programs for undergraduates. FCIP and PMF mostly focus on undergrads.
3-Use this as a resource. Government doesn't do a good job keeping track of its graduates from these pipelines. Do you think GE tracks its top people from internships and makes sure they stay with company? You bet. Government should keep a tab on such top talent and use them for special projects.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Haugen on -
1/3 of people that get the PMF don't ever find placement at an agency
According to OPM, this is correct. However, some of these may be people who find better options elsewhere. I know of a particular finalist who received multiple offers that aligned with her interests, but she preferred a position she found in the private sector. Of course, OPM can't track offers, but perhaps un-appointed PMFs should be surveyed to find out whether they received an offer and or attended the job fair. If most of the un-appointed fellows attended the job fair and are receiving offers, perhaps PMFs are high-potential individuals and have many offers, including those outside government.
PMF mostly focus on undergrads
This is incorrect. PMF requires a graduate degree in almost all cases.
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Permalink Reply by Alicia Jane Swenson on -
I am a former PMF. I think the actual process was fine - it was time consuming, but so is looking for most jobs. Some thoughts about internship programs in government:
- Please do something with the talent once you've hired them! I believe most people in my generation are excited to work and like challenges - being placed in offices with people who talk about retirement and work hard about 10 out of 40 hours (there ARE exceptions, I know), just drags people down. If you hire someone, make sure you have work for them. Make sure it at least somewhat fits their interests and skill sets. Talk to them - let them know what you need done, but also let them know what opportunities there are.
- Another personal thought of mine - don't limit everyone to DC. I know that is where much of the action takes place, but there are plenty of people across the rest of the country who would be happy to work for government in other areas. In this era of technological advances, a lot of work should be able to be done anywhere.
- There was great training for PMFs initially, but once the first year was up it was very easy to fall through the cracks. Management doesn't all see the need to continue training after requirements are met, just kind of a letdown after the first year. I'd recommend sustained training.
- Have someone outside of the agency follow up. If your are putting your money into these programs, make sure people are staying! Once you are in the program, it's hard to find resources sometimes. We had an agency coordinator, but once I graduated from PMF there wasn't anyone to go to really.
- The 2 years as a PMF were good - I could ask to try things and was generally listened to. After converting I felt stuck in a cube and the same job for life. It could just be me. My biggest suggestion is to continue keeping tabs on the fellows/interns once they are hired, and even after they've finished their time. Maybe assign someone to a small group (like 10) so someone can see you through - like a college advisor perhaps. Don't let them slip through the cracks!
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Permalink Reply by Brian Haugen on
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don't limit everyone to DC
During my job hunt, I found many opportunities (CDC, IRS, HHS, VA) across the US (Boston, Chicago, Atlanta, San Francisco), but I agree, most opportunities are in the DC area.
Maybe OPM should have job fairs in other cities with a lot of federal agencies? That way agency reps wouldn't have to travel to DC to do interviews.
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Permalink Reply by Rhonda Belser-Davis on -
I am a current PMF and I think that this program would be better if we were not assigned a "home" but were "at large". This would allow us to sample diffrent agencies and positions so that we could figure out our best fit before we were committed to a formal position title and home unit.
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Permalink Reply by Genio on -
Hi,
I was hired under the outstanding scholar program. My friends, whom came in thru PMI, are mostly still within government. They made it thru the ranks faster than I did by 2 years. It seems to have leveled at about 13-14 grade after about eight years of civil service. Some PMI and outstanding scholars, whom I think are the exception and not the rule, have made 15 grade and above during the same amount of time. This time interval does not include military time.
I don't know anyone whom didn't get to at least a GS 13 which I think is a very decent rate of promotion.
They are all either making very near or over 6 digits a year.
All the Best
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Permalink Reply by Agnes C. Wanderer on -
I was hired as an FCIP about two years after finishing graduate school, and I have absolutely loved my experience. I will be completing the second year next month, and I have had the opportunity to do six rotations within my own agency in order to get a well-rounded background for the job that I will have permanently. I have received a great deal of training and very interesting work assignments, and definitely plan on staying in my current agency for a while.
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Eric Melleby on
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A few thoughts from a recently-converted Office of the Secretary of Defense (OSD) PMF:
* The selection process should return to a more interview-based process, rather than the long multiple-choice test that is currently in use. Preparing for the original selection process gave PMF applicants a head start in preparing to apply and interview once they were a Finalist.
* The PMF program should be better advertised at schools around the country. To ensure broad regional representation and a rich and diverse pool of applications, resources should be made available to prepare applicants from all schools to have a fair chance at competing for the Fellowship.
* Other agencies should look at the OSD PMF program as a possible model. Though not perfect, it is structured so that the PMF has no "day job," and thus no supervisor who will have a disincentive to permit rotating freely. OSD PMFs are encouraged to rotate broadly throughout the Department of Defense and the interagency community, conducting five to six rotations in two years that provide a wealth of experience.
* The PMF program should be viewed as a "feeder" program into the National Security Professional Development initiative. PMFs who have conducted interagency rotations are uniquely positioned to continue to do similar "rotations" as part of their broader professional career.
* OPM should work with the Hill to develop Congressional rotations for PMFs. Experience on the Hill, particularly on a committee staff, provides invaluable experience for a future career in the executive branch.
* The federal student loan repayment program should be introduced as an incentive for PMFs. Not only would it relieve a substantial burden from grad school loans, it can be combined with a commitment to service after the Fellowship has ended -- to retain those who otherwise might leave government service after the government has invested two years of training in them.
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Permalink Reply by Megan Sullivan on
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I'm finishing up my PMF in a few months, and I agree with much of what has been said above. There is a lot of wasted talent, both in the PMFs who never get placement and the ones who are hired into jobs where they aren't kept busy or aren't challenged. In many agencies, there also seems to be a lack of understanding of the purpose and goals of the program and Fellows fall through the cracks. The PMF office tries, but they are understaffed, and we are often left to fend for ourselves with agencies who aren't so sure what's going on.
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Permalink Reply by Catherine Spain Peterson on -
There are many things that could be done to improve the internship/ fellowship process. I am a current PMF finishing up my first year. My thoughts:
-Get rid of the multiple choice test. I have no idea how I “passed” and some of my law school friends did not. Someone that was top of my class, already had an MBA and great work experience did not “pass.” She would have been great as a PMF. Just another example of the government missing out on a good candidate….
-More opportunities in the field offices. I am in a field office, but I literally had to go up to every booth at the job fair to see if there were jobs that weren’t posted in the locality I wanted to move to. Thankfully I ended up talking to the PMF program manager at my agency who was able to get me an interview with the field office, but I’m sure there are others that are not as lucky. You do have to make your own opportunities sometimes.
-Rotations. I am also lucky in that by the end of my fellowship, I will have rotated 7 times through different divisions. However, that doesn’t always mean that there is meaningful work in those divisions for me to do which is frustrating.
I have a lot more, but I think that it might be agency-specific…..
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Permalink Reply by Pam Sporborg on -
I have run the full gambit of federal student positions: STEP, SCEP, and PMF. The biggest problem for me was confusion in my hiring group about what each position was. When I was hired, my supervisor told me I would be an SCEP student, and elegible for benfits, school payment, etc. However, HR hired me as a STEP student. It took 11 months to change this, and made me miss out on many of the benifits that are associated with the SCEP program.
As a PMF, my agency is extreamly difficult to work with concerning training, rotations, and promotions. My manager does not seem to understand that the PMF removes year-in-grade, or that someone can progress on a "fast track." Guidance or help from OPM to my agency would be useful in working through some of these frustrations. While I love my job and my agency, these frustrations are making me seriously consider leaving the federal service when my PFM is over.
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Permalink Reply by Brett Freedman on
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I would agree with the comments made previously. A few additional notes:
1) Test: I would reiterate a suggestion made in another post to return to the prior interview-based format. Although I realize the cost-cutting measures that led to the decision to rely on a multiple-choice test, given the nature of the PMF program since its inception (to bring in and develop the next generation of public service leaders in the government), I believe it does candidates a significant disservice. The interview process was challenging and reflective of the types of problems one faces in a federal position. Moreover, the process enabled one to network from the start, develop interpersonal skills and prepare for the final job fair interviews. The administration of a multiple-choice test, though cheaper and less labor intensive, demeans the PMF program and, I believe, weeds out great candidates who may simply not be the best test takers. What that means in this case though, without knowing what the test is looking for, is impossible to determine. I believe this has led to a general feeling of dissatisfaction and devaluation of the PMF as reflected by prior alums who eagerly participated in the interviews annually. Notice of full disclosure: I had a unique situation where I finished an MA, was selected a PMF after going through the interview process, completed my first year of the PMF, left for law school, reapplied at the conclusion of my legal studies and was not selected after taking the standardized test. This goes to demonstrate the haphazard nature of the first round of selections and the lack of a coherent policy.
2) Streamline: You hear this quite frequently but streamline the final "dating game/circus" process of matching finalists with their departments. OPM sets forth the guidelines, rules, etc. yet when it comes to a uniform process of interviewing and hiring candidates, each department acts according to its own unique (and often entirely unknown) set of standards and time frame. Now that I am applying via USAJobs, the process is simply disconcerting at best and futile at worst. Such should not be the case when it comes to the PMF - a premier feeder for new federal civil servants.
3) Advertise. Advertise. Advertise. Absent prior alums placed in one's department, there is a general lack of knowledge of the PMF, how one can participate and what they bring to an organization. This needs to be dispensed with especially given the regulations passed recently that allow for the national security apparatus, particularly the intelligence agencies, to participate (at least theoretically) in the process.
4) Budgeting. Perhaps set forth a PMF budget from which agencies may select and take candidates rather than rely on their own internal budgeting uncertainties and processes to dictate selections. In doing so, I believe, perhaps there could be a better semblance of predictability as well as transparency not to mention eagerness by agencies to access the "pool" of funds from which they would not otherwise be able to access. Just a thought, recognizing this is admittedly short on details.
Happy to discuss further!
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